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    Mailbag - Netcode Rebuttal Page One

    Your opinions do count, and we certainly recieve a lot of them. Here's a special section of comments and views from our viewers to us, about articles and features up on this site. You have a opinion? You can use the feedback page, or directly by email to webmaster@gamesurge.com. Please make sure Mailbag is in the subject line, as we get flooded with emails on a daily basis.

    If you wish to add your comments for all our visitors to read, just send a email. Some comments were not included due to shortness or was just repeating a previous submission, but we at GameSurge wish to thank everyone for taking the time to send their comments to us.

    We read every single email, and there are some fine points made. Please note that we strip the email address and any personal information from the submissions, due to "spam" engines.

    Henri Tamminen
    Tuesday, July 04, 2000 2:04 AM
    Netcode Rebuttal
    What the hell is this second guy saying? So there is nothing wrong with new net code or CS 6.5? So I just suddenly started to suck overnight when I was already quite good? And no, I don't use cheats. At 5.2 it was 90% skill, 10% luck game and I liked it. At 6.0 it was 70% skill, 30% luck game and I still kinda liked it after they fixed that damn crosshair (well, I like RB6 implementation of crosshair more though, at least in that game it works) At 6.5 it is 10% skill, 90% luck game and I hate it (actually deleted it after about twelve hours of gaming at which time I tried to figure how the hell I miraculously started to suck overnight) Now it goes like this. Guy comes from the door and I unload over half clip on him with short burst tapping mouse fire, with target being at least 70% of the time in my crosshair. Then blam, I am dead and I check that other guy condition. 100%. So I just scored 0 hits from approx range of 3 meters? No, I don't suck that much. NONE can suck that bad.

    On the other hand when I am running and just spray to enemy general direction just to give myself a coverfire while I am running away, BLAM, enemy dead. When a game turns into a one where you score more hits without aiming... something is seriously wrong. For the record, I have ADSL connection and my average ping to server is less than 50 and I have fast enough computer that I practically never lag unless server lags. The usual team ping is around 100 in the servers I play (which seldom lag).

    So I don't know for sure if it was Valve or Counter Strike development team themselves but someone fucked up that game really good and I am not the only one who was very enthusiastic about that mod and who stopped playing after testing 6.5 and I won't be starting again unless I heard that some major fixes have been made. For the record, me and my friends have pings less than 50, sometimes as low as 25.

    Henri Tamminen
    Zhadam at CS
    Pete
    Monday, July 03, 2000 9:19 AM
    My question is this: why is it bad that the new netcode doesn't benefit the LPB's? They had a huge advantage and that needed to be dealt with. Most online FPSs' totally and completely benefit the LPB. Valve finally did something about it. God bless them!
    --=Pete Dodd
    (PP)Kill_Lola_Kill in CS
    Joseph Kurek
    Monday, July 03, 2000 3:20 PM
    One comment on your discussion of the lag compensation......... IF a HPB & LPB have a sniper rifle of same model and speed and yadda yadda. When the HPB fires on the LPB and the LPB fires on the HPB both scoring a direct hit that would kill instantly then the LPB will DIE even if they both fired at the exact same time. But the HPB would not die. This has been tested on a LAN using fakelag giving one guy a 300 ping and leaving the lpb at 8 ping and clicking the mouse at the exact same time. That is why people say that HPB now have a slight edge over LPB. Is this fair? I don't know. You tell me.
    Brad Sprigg
    Monday, July 03, 2000 9:11 PM
    I agree with Mr. Mannon. I think some LPB's are a bit pissed off because they have been relying on their better connection to feel more skilled than their HPB counterparts, and now that they have lost this advantage to a degree they are annoyed. Firing Squad are correct to say it is not as skilled a game as Quake, due to the extra (and more realistic) inaccuracy, but it is also fair to say that a HPB needs more skill to compete with the LPB's. The fact of the matter is that a good LPB should always beat a good HPB. If the original author cannot accept that then he just needs more practice. The extra inaccuracy in CS makes it more of a strategic game, knowing how to use each weapon and their effective ranges is just as important as a good aim. It also puts more emphasis on teamwork, with subbie-wielding troops protecting and being supported by AWP wielding troops for example. Saying that the new netcode gives HPB's an advantage is just being a cry-baby, because it does not still give as equal an advantage as being a LPB in the first place. Give the LPB a 33.6k modem and tell them to shut their whiny little mouth. It's like having a car race between a Formula 1 car and a Ford and then the Formula 1 driver complaining because they have given the Ford a bit bigger engine and a turbo.
    Cheers, LordSathias
    Michael Burman
    Tuesday, July 04, 2000 11:17 AM
    Why releasing an article commenting on previous article, if you never tried playing as a LPB on CS b6? I would actually agree with Zenith (or whatever his nick was) on this issue. LPB playing is just totally awful these days. You can't hit HPWs without luck, since bullets go through. I have even shot through a HPW, and killed 4 players behind him. Really great code.. not. 2 of the best Finnish clans quited after 6.5 (and no, they weren't using cheats, they've been playing lan games with same owning). Both were highly-LPB-clans. After 6.6, few players from both clans have returned. 3 from the other, 6 from the other. Others.. quited CS. It's not anymore a game of skill, it's about luck too much. Valve wanted the game to be easier for newbies, more money. They totally forgot, that top-clans make the game, and make it a success. Don't flame too much Zenith.
    To the next pageTo the Mailbag HomepageTo the last page of the Netcode mailbag

    ( Note from shiva: Hey, I put my name up this time. Again, I will state that I don't play the game, and more than likely never will, but this thing just won't die. It does seem there is a problem with the netcode, as the emails, which now total around 150 -175, are pretty much split 50/50 on one side or the other. But I feel I should point out a couple of things, and risk some serious flaming.

    First off, I think people are under estimating just how tough it is for any producer to set up a multi-player feature in their game, for internet play. In a perfect world, everyone will have the same speed access to the internet, but this isn't a perfect world, it's computer technology we are talking about. There are so many different computer technologies out there, and no real standard that everyone uses, and alas, it is also the same way in a sense with the connection speeds. There's 33.6, 56k (V90 standard), ISDN, cable, ADSL, DSL, T1 and so on, all of which have millions of users for a particular speed on the internet. Adding to that, is how your connection is routed through the internet, (Some people get bounced from server to server before they reach the proper location), the hardware the individual has, and where you are actually playing from location wise, and what you have is a very LARGE challenge for any game designer.

    Valve has run into that problem, and the result is what you read before you. Is there any solution to this? Well, the only real large multi-player experience I have is with battle.net, and Blizzard's solution was that everyone ended up playing at the slowest speed,. (Or at least it seems that way) If the slow guy dies, the speed improves noticeably. It may be argued that the server has a "lesser load", but I have seen this happen more than a few times within 3 minutes of the game starting. Sure, it's annoying as hell, when you have 1 or 2 green lag bars, and a "red guy" comes and slows the game down to a crawl, but... it's fair. Very fair.

    Now I'm not saying this is the best thing for your game, in fact, it won't work more than likely, but it seems that a lot of people are very unhappy since "the change". So here's a challenge to all you gamers out there. It's easy to defend the Netcode, or to tear it down, but it's a lot tougher to come up with a system that is fair, and that is satisfactory to all players. So I am throwing down the gauntlet, challenging you to come up with a better system that works and is FAIR TO EVERYONE, whether it be forcing everyone to play at the same speed, having a better lag rating system, or even doing a "server force" by placing players with a similar lag rating into a special game channel at log in (of course, you should be able to get out of the channel to play with friends). Surely, someone out there has a simple solution. I want to hear it, and judging from the amount of emails we have received, and the comments on the various forums, a lot of other people want to hear it as well.

    Everyone has had their say, and everyone has expressed a opinion on that as well, but it's now time for a solution. So write in with your ideas, and make sure you give permission if you wish it to be included as part of our mailbag. Your idea, no matter how simple or small, may help solve this mess. And if we have a idea that will really work, I will personally send it to the publisher. (Working on the assumption that they will ever speak to us.) You can email your opinions to our webmaster@gamesurge account, for both Falcon and I to view, and if you decide instead to flame me for expressing my opinions, even though I am admitting that I am making these statements without any actual knowledge or basis for fact, you can send it to shiva@gamesurge.com. )


    " "



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